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Donald Trump’s attorney briefly derailed his high-profile civil fraud trial on Wednesday by suggesting that a real estate executive committed perjury after he delivered damaging testimony against the former president.
A day earlier, real estate executive Douglas Larson all but accused the Trump Organization of fabricating his advice about a capitalization rate on the former president’s 40 Wall Street property to arrive at a sky-high $735 million figure.
But emails introduced by the defense on Wednesday showed Larson in direct communication with the company’s controller, Jeffrey McConney.
“Would you be able to send me a current report similar to the one attached for Midtown Class A Buildings and also one for Downtown Class A Buildings(like 40 Wall Street)?” McConney asked Larson on Aug. 5, 2013.
Former President Donald Trump speaks to the media during a break in his civil fraud trial at New York State Supreme Court on October 18, 2023 in New York City.Spencer Platt/Getty ImagesTrump’s counsel confronts suggestions of fabrication
The Trump Organization had claimed in a financial statement that McConney spoke to Larson over the phone about the cap rate, a figure of great significance in determining the building’s value.
“Based on a telephone conversation with Doug Larsen [sic] on 2/1/2016, since the ground lease still has about 190 years left, the effect on the cap rate is minimal,” the statement asserted.
Larson denied such a conversation during direct examination on Tuesday, but emails entered into evidence by the defense showed that the two electronically communicated about the cap rate issue — some two years earlier.
On Sept. 15, 2014, McConney asked Larson in a separate email about whether the cap rate would be affected in the event of a “property with a ground lease that expires in 2079.”
“You lied yesterday, didn’t you?” Trump’s attorney Lazaro P. Fields charged.
Doug Larson, an executive vice president at Newmark and ex-executive director at Cushman & Wakefield, leaves for a lunch break after testifying during the civil fraud trial of former President Donald Trump at New York State Supreme Court on Oct. 18, 2023 in New York City.Michael M. Santiago/Getty ImagesWhy the witness was sent out of the room
The question briefly derailed the morning proceedings, with the attorney general’s counsel accusing Trump’s team of trying to intimidate the witness — and performing for the press.
Trump’s lead attorney Christopher Kise suggested that Larson should be advised of his rights against self-incrimination, prompting further objections from lawyers for the state.
At that point, Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron ordered the witness out of the room, as attorneys for Trump and the state wrangled about what took place.
After the witness left, Kise told the judge, flatly: “I think he needs to be advised of potential perjury.”
Donald Trump at the courthouse in Lower Manhattan, New York on October 18, 2023.John Taggart/Pool
The state’s counsel Kevin Wallace scoffed at the remark.
“The government does not care about this witness’s Fifth Amendment rights,” Wallace said, accusing the defense of playing to the press. “This is a performance.”
Engoron questioned why Kise would want to keep the witness from speaking at this point, but he allowed Larson’s counsel to chime in, before shooting down her request to speak to her client.
“If he’s perjuring himself, he’s perjuring himself,” the judge said. “If not, he has nothing to worry about.”
New York Attorney General Letitia James arrives at New York State Supreme court for the continuing civil fraud trial against former U.S. President Donald Trump on October 18, 2023 in New York City. Spencer Platt/Getty ImagesWhat happened after the witness’s return
After Larson reentered, Trump’s counsel continued where he’d left off — accusing the witness of lying under oath. The state’s counsel objected once again, noting that the emails were date-stamped years before the time of Larson’s alleged conversation with McConney.
But Fields displayed Larson’s exchange on direct examination.
“Did you work with Mr. McConney in 2013 to determine the cap rate that he used to value the property?” the AG’s counsel Mark Ladov asked on Tuesday.
“No, I did not,” Larson replied at the time.
Shown the Trump Organization’s spreadsheet again, Larson acknowledged that the company claimed that the cap rate was “based” on information that he provided — rather than his direct advice. The contentious testimony continued with another round of cross-examination by the Trump family’s attorney Clifford Robert, who pressed the witness on whether he met with the attorney general’s office on Monday, the day before his testimony.
Larson agreed he had — and that he wasn’t shown the emails with McConney during that session. The attorney general’s counsel Mark Ladov showed during redirect examination that they also had met earlier, when the emails in question were discussed.
Before Larson’s testimony concluded, Kise walked back his earlier implication: “I never accused the witness of perjury,” he said. Engoron picked up on the distinction, parsing that the lawyer alleged that the AG’s office was leading him into perjurious testimony. The AG’s office maintained that Larson has been consistent, showing the witness his comments from an earlier meeting.
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